Kayloo

8 responses so far ↓

• 1 The BoBo // May 14, 2008 at 11:06 pm

  Bradley,
  Good post. This is my “soapbox” issue. I will comment on it tomorrow when I have more time and I start earlier in the evening. We’re going to find out if you have a character limit in your comment section with this one! LOL

  See ya tomorrow night for my response!

• 2 Tapline // May 14, 2008 at 11:31 pm

  Good post…You my friend have just touched the tip of the iceberg. Education in this country is surely in deep dodo. It continues to the Institutions of Higher Education . Discussion and dialog are one way and when the students graduates, are teaching our young….The only answer is to stay involved. There are educators who comment on my Blog and I’m sure you can get an education about the downward trend by quarrying them….stay well….

• 3 Bradley Hankins // May 15, 2008 at 6:12 pm

  Well, I’ve just found out that my stats were a little off. Instead of being in the top ten, the United States was ranked 28th in the world in math, and like 17th or so in science. This is just unthinkable being the country we are. We really need to change our education system, and actually educate the students.

  Personal experience: My years so far in high school have amount to this: I’ve haven’t learned anything in math, and the only thing I’ve learned in science is a little bit more biology then I knew in middle school…. so you can see where I am coming from (Speaking from schools in Alabama though…)

• 4 The BoBo // May 15, 2008 at 7:38 pm

  Okay, Bradley, here goes:

  First - you are right on target. You kids these days are getting a very sub-par education compared to just 20 years ago. The education I received (I won’t say exactly when I graduated) is far superior than what you are receiving, yet, ours was even less than what my parents received.

  There has been an undercurrent of socialism occurring gradually and over time within the school system. Self-esteem and self-worth have taken over. It seems that according to the so-called education experts, it is more harmful to fail someone than it is to actually correct the errors or actually require you to learn critical thinking skills. When was the last time you had a paper graded with a red pen? They banned the use of red pens in schools about 5 years ago because it damaged the students’ psyche!

  And, just as you stated, rather than require kids to actually be challenged and to think, they dumbed down the requirements for passing high school. When I graduated high school you actually had to have a 12th grade level education and to take final exams in every subject. In Florida, you just have to pass the FCAT which is at a 10th grade level. At least you guys are at an 11th grade level. Here in Florida, you get 4 chance to pass it. Tell me, how can you get to be a senior in the 12th grade and not be able to pass a 10th grade level test?

  I have had 4 kids go through the public education system here in Florida. My step-son barely graduated. It took him 3 times before he actually passed the FCATS. He’s in the Army right now. My step-daughter - who was an honor student - which in my day she wouldn’t have qualified as an honor student - had to take the test 2 times before she passed. She’s a pseudo-freshman in college right now. I say “pseudo” because she failed all the entrance exams and has been taking prep classes for the past year just to be able to take college level courses. So, it is going to take her 5 years to get a 4 year degree because the first year preparation classes aren’t credited towards a college degree.

  My oldest son dropped out of high school his senior year with a 1.1 GPA. He was never required to do homework. Therefore, he could never pass any tests because he never had the reinforcement at home. I questioned the school and the teachers several times throughout those 4 years because I just did not believe him when he said he didn’t have homework. The explanation I got - and this is the absolute God’s honest truth - They don’t give out homework because a lot of the kids don’t have anyone at home to be able to help them out, so, they just don’t give it. They give the kids 15 minutes at the end of each class to do “homework.” I remember my homework assignments taking as much as an hour per class and I had homework from every single class. I was not allowed outside after school until I completed my homework. Back then, school also started at 7:00am and I was home by 2:30pm. Sometimes I finished my homework just before dinner, so I didn’t go outside until after dinner. Then there were some days where I had a class where there wasn’t any homework and I was able to get outside for about 1 hour before I had to come back in for dinner. I thought this was just an anomaly in Florida. I’ve heard that there is a whole wave going across the country where high schools are no longer giving out homework at all.

  My 16 year old son dropped out of high school in his Sophomore year. But, here’s the deal - he was encouraged to drop out - by his “guidance counselor” because “maybe high school wasn’t his cup of tea.” Seriously! I had a huge argument with the principle and this so-called guidance counselor for providing him with this suggestion. They called in the school resource officer to have me escorted out! WTF? In my day Guidance Counselors actually provided real guidance and encouragement. Now, they just tell you to drop out and pursue a GED. It’s all about the “No Child Left Behind” agenda. Kids who drop out are not assessed in the school’s report card. If they get the low performers to drop out instead of bringing down the FCAT scores they get a higher grade on the school report card which means they get more funding for the school.

  Also, when I was in school, we had 1 principle, 1 vice-principle, 2 guidance counselors, and office staff to run the school. There were 2,000 kids in our school. Now, there is 1 principle, 1 vice-principle per grade for a total of 4. Each VP has 2 assistant VPs for a total of 8. There are 2 guidance counselors per grade level for a total of 8. There are 2 “administrators” per grade for a total of 8. Administrators are the ones who actually handle punishments. This role used to be handled by the principle and the VP. Now there are secretaries for every VP and guidance counselors, plus a bookkeeper with a secretary. The VP and Principle each have a secretary. The front desk is manned by students now. After putting all this mid-level administration and management in place, they are complaining that there isn’t enough money to buy books for all the kids. In the entire 4 years each of my kids were in school, not one of them were ever assigned or given a book they could take home. There were only “in-class” books that were shared. In addition, in several classes, they were told they were not allowed to take notes because they couldn’t take notes and listen to the teacher at the same time. Really? How ludicrous is that? If they don’t have homework, and they don’t have books to bring home, and they can’t take notes in class, just how the hell were they expected to study for tests? Oh, yeah, I was told they get time in the classes before the test to study.

  Our education system is going down the tubes very quickly. I feel sorry for your generation because you are not getting the education and critical thinking skills you need to succeed in today’s world. You are coming out of high school unprepared for college. When I went to college, there were no college entrance exams and there were no prep-classes. If you failed math 101, or english 101, or any of the other first year classes, you took them again until you passed them (not that it happened to me). If you failed in college, it was most likely due to lack of effort, not the fact that you didn’t have the knowledge to be in college in the first place.

  Likewise, when I was in high school, shop classes were electives and very few people actually took these types of classes. High school curriculum was all about preparing you for college. Now, high school curriculum has essentially become tech-school education to prepare you for a job at McDonald’s rather than prepare you for college.

  Like I said before, you guys are getting a raw deal and a very sub-standard education. Social issues have taken over curriculum. Additionally, in order to be on the Honor Roll, you had to have a 3.8 cumulative GPA (not this new weighted average system going on) and be in at least three honor level classes in your senior year. You could expect that there were only about 2% of the entire class would be on the honor roll which fits a normal statistical bell curve. My step-daughter was on the honor roll with a cumulative GPA of 3.0 and she did not take a single honors class the entire 4 years. She was in a graduating class of about 400. There were 250 people on the “honor roll.” How is this even possible? It kind of takes the honor out of it. It all goes back to the idea that you can’t hurt someone’s self-esteem. You can’t have someone be better than someone else. You can’t have one winner. Everyone is a winner in today’s schools. This is not the way that the real world works. If you want to be a top-level executive or CEO or even a politician in today’s world, you have to be the over-achiever and you have to be the winner. High school, today, does not prepare you this way.

  I played sports in high school. We had try-outs for every sport. Those who were not good enough did not make the team and were told to try harder the next year. While I always made the Freshman Football, Baseball, and Basketball teams…I did not make the cut for Varisty Basketball. I did play on the school Football and Baseball teams. However, I was 2d string tailback and 1st string corner back on the football team. I was 1st team left field and 3rd team short stop on the baseball team. I didn’t make the basketball team because I was shorter than everyone else at 5′10. I won all kinds of basketball trophies throughout my years as a kid to include 3 Pt Shoot-outs, Free-throws, and Hot shot contests. I hit 95 out of 100 free throws one year. While I had the skills for the team, there was someone else with the same skills but taller. Yes, I was a bit upset, but I totally understood because that is the environment I grew up in. Sometimes, there are people that are better than you. That year, my football team was 2d in state with a 13-0 record. Our basketball team one the state championship. All 5 starters got college scholarships. 1 ended up going pro after college (I won’t name drop). My baseball team was 2d in state.

  Additionally, we only had 7 varsity cheerleaders. All the girls’ sports had try-outs as well. Only the best made the teams and squads. Here’s the point I’m leading up to - because of the way high school today does not encourage competition, at my kids’ school, everyone who was a junior or above who “tries” out for a team and pays the “participation fee” makes the team. Same for the cheerleading squad. Whoever has the money, makes the team. We had a roster of 40 people on my HS football team. 20 people on the roster for the baseball team, and 15 people on the roster for the basketball team. My step-son had 60 kids on the team. They played a “5th” quarter each game to give the kids who didn’t play during the regulation period a chance to play. There are 30 people on the baseball team and 25 people on the basketball team last year. My step-daughter was 1 of 27 cheerleaders. Again, whoever tried out and paid all the fees was on the team. There is no longer any competitive standards to making a team. While there will always be “the starters” who actually deserve to be on those teams, the others will still get a letter just for being on the team and sitting on the bench. It devalues the whole letterman system.

  Well, Bradley, I told you this was my soapbox issue and that it would be long! I could continue with my discontent, but I could probably turn this into a 30 page dissertation!

  Just hang in there - and - if you want to excel, do more than what your teachers ask of you. They don’t ask enough of our students any more.

• 5 Bradley Hankins // May 16, 2008 at 11:01 am

  See? I don’t have a post limit.

  Actually, we still use red pens to grade papers. For example, in history class we have reading quizzes, which checks if we actually read the night before. After that three questions, we pass our papers back, and get a red pen, or a different color pen, but the teacher prefers red… So I don’t think that the anti-red pen law is in Alabama yet.

  Our AHSGE isn’t even on an 11th grade scale, because we take all of them in 10th grade! By 10th grade you should have already passed the classes the would prepare you for these exams. Matter of fact, the class objectives is to get you ready for the exam. I don’t know if you went to the link to the practice exam or not, but if you did you could see really how easy these questions are, and they should be a piece of cake if you took a class the year of to take the exam.

  Also, these exams are suppose to be timed. Yet when time is up, and you have some questions un-answered, you get moved to another room while everyone else goes back to class. Seems a bit unfair to me.

  Honor Roll at Murphy High School is a bit unique. We have this program called the IB program, which is for the rich and smart people in the school. I was in it my freshman year, but got kicked out for some reasons. The grade point average is based on a 5.0 scale, and not a 4.0 scale as the rest of the school. So these kids are always at the top of the class, and they deserve it. On the other hand, I’m taking mainly AP classes, which are to prepare you for college, and at the end of the year you get to take a AP exam. This year I took the AP U.S. History and the AP Language and Composition exam. If you make a 3 or higher (to 5), you can possibly gain a credit for college, depending on which college you go to. But back to the GPA. These classes are way harder than those pesky honors classes (basically regular classes), and regular classes (special ed classes essentially). We all three get graded on a 4.0 GPA level.

  Just the other day we had our yearly honors assembly, which basically is a program where if you have perfect attendance, A honor roll, or A-B honor roll, you get a ribbon. I say it’s a waste of time, but we do it. I didn’t get an award that day, thanks to my AP classes first semester, in which I had C’s in (equivalent to an A in honors classes). On the other hand, those who made the honor roll in honors or regular classes, which is almost impossible not to do, got to walk up on stage to receive their award. If I was to take regular or honors classes (which I was forced to last year), I would be making all A’s (which I did last year). It just seems like the levels are extremely unfair.

  I think that we should have any programs like IB in certain schools, but in most schools we should have two programs. The first would be the normal program, which was competitive, and actually would teach the students. If you could not pass these classes, you will fail, and would get the opportunity to come back next year to try again, or go get your GED, whatever floats your boat. Then the other would be the AP program, which would be harder and require more work, but would prepare you for college.

  I think what is wrong in the U.S. that too many people go to college, and not enough go to work. I’m not saying this in a mean way, but not everyone is meant for college. If you take regular classes all your high school life, you shouldn’t be allowed into colleges. At most a technical school were you learn trades like welding or electrician and such. They make a lot of money, and are always in demand, but they actually work. Just because America is lazy doesn’t mean our workforce should suffer. If we actually had people for the jobs the illegal immigrants fill, then we would stop the flow of these immigrants.

  For example, my dad never went to college. Even before he walked at his graduation in high school he was out in boot camp for the Marines. He spent 4 years in the service, where we was in Motor T. After the military, he came back home and worked for the paper mill, then for Icee, and the for Dees Paper Company. After my brother was born, we needed a bit more money. He found a trucking company that would pay for his college as long as he went to them. So he went to college for free as South West Arkansas Community College, and then went truck driving. He has done that most of my life, but not is working at a bag mill.

  So there is plenty of work for people with just a high school diploma, and some companies will even pay for your trade school if you go to work with them.

  This whole society of make everyone feel good, no one is a loser, and everyone wins is a bunch of crap, and it ruining what America is. We need to get back to the way we were running decades ago, and return back to the top of the world.

• 6 The BoBo // May 16, 2008 at 12:02 pm

  Bradley,

  When you get a chance, check out the post by Durano on my site. It is about this very thing. You and he may have been in the same mindset!

  When I was in HS, we didn’t have AP and IB classes. Our honors classes were equivalent to your AP and IB classes now. Many of the classics that I read in honors English are now banned from your school libraries. They have replaced classic literature with modern social issue related books (i.e. Friday Night Lights, Smoking in The Girls Room, etc., etc.,) You know what books I mean. Our honors math classes were actually Calculus and Trig. Our honors science classes were advanced chemistry and included biostatistics. When we came out of high school we were prepared for college.

  It appears you have fallen in the trap set for you. You have a belief that people should be more prepared to work rather than go to college. I agree that some people aren’t meant for college. That is fine. But they should at least come out with an education that could prepare them to enter college should they choose to in the future. Tech schools are great for those who want to be mechanics, carpenters, etc. Again, having a college prep level education better prepares them for the advanced levels that automechanics, construction, and other technology services are at in today’s world.

  The real world knows that a high school diploma is meaningless today. You can’t find a decent job with only a high school diploma compared to years ago. For any decent wage job you need to have at minimum an AA/AS degree or have specialized training through a tech-school. This wasn’t the case when I graduated. I had many great paying jobs after high school, in the summers between college semesters, and during college. I didn’t have to work at the local Micky D’s after high school because I had a decent education that enabled me to work in many professional office settings.

  Anyway - you got me started again! I need to stop here or it could continue on!

• 7 Bradley Hankins // May 16, 2008 at 12:35 pm

  Well, I’ve already took Trig, and I’m taken Cal next year, Trig was honors, Cal is AP and honors. You are right with the literature, in my AP Language class we just got through reading I Am David, which was written very poorly, and in a 5th grade level. The only books I have read that are even good for me and books I get myself, even though last year we read Ceaser and freshman year we read 1984 and Animal Farm.

  About the trap, I haven’t fallen it in, I just think you understood wrong. I want them to come out with the same education, just that those people who want more can have the chance to get more in high school. I don’t think everyone should be able to go to college, unless everyone is ready. I know people who have a 2.2 GPA who are going to college. Don’t get me wrong, these people are good people, but they didn’t take school seriously, but of course they have the dream to make lots of money and have an easy job. I guess they have the freedom to do it if they wish.

  And I did read the post at your blog, and it was kind of scare how we both posted something similar, but I’m glad to know that many people are worried about the education system even though it is sometimes thrown under the bus.

• 8 The BoBo // May 16, 2008 at 7:28 pm

  Wow! How did those with a 2.2 even get accepted to college? It sounds like even the colleges may have lowered their standards as well. College used to be very competitive. I applied to 15 different colleges my senior year and only got accepted to 4 of them (Pitt, Penn State, Elizabethtown, U of Maryland) I ended up going to UofM my first 2 years before I joined the Air Force.

  You are probably correct, I may have misunderstood you regarding those who don’t go to college.

  See ya

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